October
4, 1943 16th victory
October
4, 1943 16th victory
Searches concerning this victory :
| progress of the search | 4 | Last update | September 4 , 2002 | Evaluation quality of information | 3 |
The mission of the USAAF
COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCESMONDAY, 4 OCTOBER 1943
EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force):
VIII Bomber Command Mission 108: 4 targets in Germany and a diversion are flown. 12 B-17's and 4 B-24's are lost.
1. 104 B-17's are dispatched to the Wiesbaden industrial area; 15 aircraft hit Wiesbaden and 77 hit the industrial area at Frankfurt at 1059-1105 hours; they claim 19-3-15 Luftwaffe aircraft; 5 B-17's are lost
and 45 damaged; casualties are 2 KIA, 8 WIA and 40 MIA.
2. 37 of 51 B-17's dispatched to Frankfurt hit the target at 1110-1111 hours; they claim 18-8-22 Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 B-17's are lost and 35 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 2 WIA and 30 MIA.
3. 115 B-17's are dispatched to the Saarlautern industrial area; 67 hit Saarlautern and 38 hit St Dizier/Robinson Airfield in France at 1136-1148 hours; they claim 37-7-7 Luftwaffe aircraft; 4 B-17's are lost, 4 are damaged beyond repair and 19 damaged; casualties are 6 WIA and 29 MIA.
4. 47 of 53 B-17's dispatched hit Sarreguemnines and Saarbrucken marshalling yards at 1133-1139 hours; 2 B-17's are damaged; no casualties.
5. 38 B-24's fly a diversion; they claim 13-6-3 Luftwaffe aircraft; 4 B-24's are lost and 19 damaged; casualties are 11 WIA and 43 MIA.
B-24 declared lost on October 4, 1943 (current result of my works) :
Source : MACR
serial number
plane name
squadron
code
date lost
reason
mission lost on
pilot / crew
42-40989
B24D-120-CO
44BG 506BS
?
Oct 4, 1943
?
?
MACR 940
Source : 392nd BG web site
serial number
plane name
squadron
code
date lost
reason
mission lost on
pilot / crew
42-7471
B24H-1-FO Mack's Sack
392BG 579BS
G-Bar
Oct 4, 1943
fighters
North see diversion
mission #3
Crash Location North Sea at 10.26P l/LT Morphew, Orval S. KIA
CP 2ILT Purdy, Robert F. KIA
N 2/LT Schearer, Martin 0. KIA
B l/LT Moore, Lawrence A. KIA
EnG T/S ThralI, Leo C. KIA
R/O T/S Moriarty, Maurice R. KIA
NG S/S Derrick, Pete E. KIA
WG S/S Wells, Virgil W. KIA
WG S/S Wilson, James C. KIA
TG S/S Woller, Christian S. KIA
MACR 89042-7474
B24H-1-FO Satan's Flame
392BG 579BS
M-Bar
Oct 4, 1943
fighters
North see diversion
mission #3
Crash Location : North Sea at 10.18P l/LT Smith, Brian T. KIA
CP 2/LT Sederquist,
Donald L. KIA
N 2/LT Wasserstein,
Hyman (NMI) KIA
B 2/LT Irvine, John S. Jr KIA
R/O T/S Gott, Edwin J. KIA
NG S/S Tucker, Herbert L. KIA
EnG T/S Kuziora, Walter F. KIA
WG S/S Weiner, Harry D. KIA
WG S/S Schiffer, James L. KIA
TG S/S Senk, John J. KIA
MACR 89142-7481
B24H-1-FO The Drip
392BG 579BS
J-Bar
Oct 4, 1943
collision with fighter
North see diversion
mission #5
Crash Location : North Sea at 10.26
P(CA) Maj. Appert,
Donald A. (579th Cdr) KIA
P 1 /LT Feurstacke,
James A. KIA
CP 2/LT Kvoijak, Michael B. KIA
N 2/LT Bratcher, Carey E. KIA
B 2/LT Smittle, Floyd D. KIA
R/O T/S Rooney, George W. KIA
EnG T/S Rorer, Frank E. KIA
NG S/S Giles, Harold R. KIA
AEnG S/S Buchheit,
Edward L. KIA
WG S/S Gray, Roy G. KIA
TG S/S Seifert, Robert B. KIA
MACR 8924 OCTOBER 1943 TARGET : NORTH SEA DIVERSION
MISSING AIR CREW REPORT: #00890 AIRCRAFT: # "MACK’S SACK" "G-Bar" 3rd MissionAIRCREW: MORPHEW * SQUADRON: 579th CREW POSITIONS AND STATUS:
P l/LT Morphew, Orval S. KIA
CP 2ILT Purdy, Robert F. KIA
N 2/LT Schearer, Martin 0. KIA
B l/LT Moore, Lawrence A. KIA
EnG T/S ThralI, Leo C. KIA
R/O T/S Moriarty, Maurice R. KIA
NG S/S Derrick, Pete E. KIA
WG S/S Wells, Virgil W. KIA
WG S/S Wilson, James C. KIA
TG S/S Woller, Christian S. KIA
MISSION LOSS CIRCUMSTANCES: The 392nd BG letter, dated 6 October 43 and forwarded to the War Department through channels, detailed the following eyewitness accounts: Lt. Morphew’s B-24 was last seen falling in a mild spin at about 10,000 feet followed closely by four enemy fighters. One or two parachutes were reported seen from this aircraft. A wing tip and the tail assembly had been damaged and partially torn off as a result of a mid-air collision with one of the other Group aircraft, believed to be B-24 # 42-7481 (Lt. Fuerstacke’s ship) - as the Morphew ship spun out of the formation at about 1026 hours.
No other reports were available on this crew and aircraft loss.INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS OF CREWMEN FATES: None available in this MACR and no German reports of enemy sightings involving any ground activity of this crew or aircraft were appended. BURIAL RECORDS: No German reports were available on any initial recovery or interments of any aircrew members. U.S. National Cemetery records do reflect the following about all crewmen: All (10) men are recorded on the WALL OF THE MISSING in the following overseas cemeteries. At CAMBRIDGE, England: Morphew; Thrall; Moriarty; Wilson and Woller. At NETHERLANDS (Margraten), Netherlands: Moore; Schearer; Purdy; Derrick and Wells. All men were awarded the Air Medal and the Purple Heart. NEXT OF KIN DATA IN WWII: No record exists, however, the home States of the crew members
were: Morphew (Minnesota); Purdy (Alabama); Moore (West Virginia);Thrall (Kansas); Schearer
(Kentucky); Moriarty (Massachusetts); Derrick (Oklahoma);Wilson (N. Carolina); Wells
(Kentucky); and Woller (Texas).
MISSING AIR CREW REPORT: #00891 AIRCRAFT: #42-7474 "SATAN’S FLAME" "M-Bar" 3rd MissionAIRCREW: SMITH * SQUADRON: 579th
CREW POSITIONS AND STATUS:
P l/LT Smith, Brian T. KIA
CP 2/LT Sederquist, Donald L. KIA
N 2/LT Wasserstein, Hyman (NMI) KIA
B 2/LT Irvine, John S. Jr KIA
R/O T/S Gott, Edwin J. KIA
NG S/S Tucker, Herbert L. KIA
EnG T/S Kuziora, Walter F. KIA
WG S/S Weiner, Harry D. KIA
WG S/S Schiffer, James L. KIA
TG S/S Senk, John J. KIAMISSION LOSS CIRCUMSTANCES: The 392nd BG letter of 6 October summarizing the Morphew crew loss noted this crew’s loss circumstance as reported by other formation ships: Pilot Smith’s ship was last seen losing altitude with one or more engines on fire. At around 9,000 feet, combat with enemy fighters was still in progress. Three to four parachutes were reported seen at 1018 hours. No other combat reports were available on this aircraft and aircrew. INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS OF CREWMEN FATES: As in the case of the Morphew crew, none were available including any possible German reports. BURIAL RECORDS: No German reports of interment were available probably because no crew member,
as in the case of the Morphew crew, was ever recovered later on land or from the North Sea waters. U.S. National Cemetery records do reflect the following remembrances: At NETHERLANDS (Margraten), Netherlands on the WALL OF THE MISSING: Smith; Sederquist; Wasserstein; Irvine; Gott; Shiffer; and Senk. At CAMBRIDGE, England: Tucker; Kuziora and Weiner on the WALL OF THE MISSING. All members were awarded the Air Medal and the Purple Heart, except Sgts. Gott and Shiffer in this record.NEXT OF KIN DATA IN WWII: No record exists. However, the home State of each crew member was as follows: Smith (California); Sederquist (California); Wasserstein (New York); Irvine (Tennessee); Gott (Pennsylvania); Tucker (New York); Kuziora (Pennsylvania); Weiner (New Jersey); Shiffer (Pennsylvania); and Senk (New Jersey).
MISSING AIR CREW REPORT: #00892 AIRCRAFT: #42-7481 "THE DRIP" "J-Bar" 5th Mission AIRCREW: FUERSTACKE (APPERT as CA) * SQUADRON: 579th CREW POSITIONS AND STATUS:
P(CA) Maj. Appert, Donald A. (579th Cdr) KIA
P 1 /LT Feurstacke, James A. KIA
CP 2/LT Kvoijak, Michael B. KIA
N 2/LT Bratcher, Carey E. KIA
B 2/LT Smittle, Floyd D. KIA
R/O T/S Rooney, George W. KIA
EnG T/S Rorer, Frank E. KIA
NG S/S Giles, Harold R. KIA
AEnG S/S Buchheit, Edward L. KIA
WG S/S Gray, Roy G. KIA
TG S/S Seifert, Robert B. KIAMISSION LOSS CIRCUMSTANCES: As the case in the two crews above, the 392nd BG letter cited outlined in brief the loss of this aircrew and ship from eye-witness accounts: The Feurstacke aircraft was last observed falling with at least one and possibly both wings torn off after collision with an enemy fighter which had been badly damaged by our own aircraft and knocked out of control into #4_-7481. The collision was followed by a violent explosion at about 10,000 feet of the Feurstacke. B-24. No parachutes were observed as the aircraft disappeared into clouds at 1026 hours. Lt. Morphew’s ship also fell into #42-7481. INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNTS OF CREWMEN FATES: No records available as in the cases of the other two
aircrews above.BURIAL RECORDS: No enemy records are available. U.S. National Cemetery records reflect the following on the WALL OF THE MISSING at each: At NETHERLANDS, (Margraten), Netherlands: Appert; Feuerstacke; Smittle; Rooney; Giles; Rorer; Bucheit; Gray; and Seifert. At CAMBRIDGE, England: The names of Kvorjak and Bratcher are inscribed on the WALL. All men were awarded the Air Medal and Purple Heart, however, no medals are shown as posthumous awards for T/Sgt. Rorer. NEXT OF KIN DATA WORLD WAR II: No record in the MACR file exists. However, the home States of
the crew men were noted as follows: Appert (California); Feuerstacke (Tennessee); Kvorjak (Ohio); Bratcher (Texas); Smittle (Ohio); Rooney (New York); Giles (Maine); Rorer (Pennsylvania); Bucheit (Oregon); Gray (West Virginia); and Seifert (Pennsylvania).
Source : site http://www.mach3ww.com/B24
Message de John J. Dominik <jdominik@tiny/computing.csbsju.edu> mailto:%2Fcomputing.csbsju.edu
St. Cloud, MN USA - Wednesday, June 25, 1997 at 09:02:51 (CDT)
My cousin, Major Donald Appert, enlisted in the Army Air Corps in August, 1941. After receiving his wings, he instructed pilots until January 1943, when he was made Squadron Commander of Squadron 579 in the 392 Bomb Group. They were sent to Wendling, England in late August/early September and were sent on diversionary missions in early October, 1943. On October 4, 1943, returning from a diversionary mission to Wilhelmshaven, they were attacked by 35 to 50 German fighters. In the air battle, one fighter, hit by maching gun fire from a bomber, went out of control and struck the B-24 in my cousin was command pilot. Both planes exploded and fell out of control striking another B-24 on the way down to the North Sea. I would like to hear from anyone who knew Major Appert while in service.
Although I am still short of information concerning notably the falling point of B-24 serial 42-40989, in this stadium of my works an interesting hypothesis is outlined. But it remains a hypothesis...
It concerns facts reported by Heinz KNOKE on German side and contents side US of the MISSING AIRCREW REPORT: #00892 AIRCRAFT: #42-7481 " The DRIP " " J-BAR ". These testimonies can indeed confirm itself if one takes into account conditions in which they were lived. The American eyewitnesses, the other members of crews of B-24, reported facts which they saw partially, on one hand, and at strong distance on the other hand, because the shot down planes at first left the box then lost a lot of height. It follows itself necessarily a change of the quality of their vision. Optical effects due to distance were able to play. I explain myself it :KNOKE after a first frontal pass which damaged B-24 waits that this last one leaves the box and be out of reach protection of the weapons of its colleagues : at least 1000 metres.
Attacking the B-24 by under KNOKE, who is alone, sets on fire the womb of it and sees at once jumping 8 members of the crew with parachute.
Thinking that it does not stay any more anybody of living crew in he gets closer very near, 60 to 100 feet, and sees the big holes fact by the shells in the nose and the tail of the plane.
The dorsal machine gunner stayed in his post makes a bulls eyes on his Me 109 at very short distance ! KNOKE's engine ignites and commands do not answer any more. KNOKE evacuates his plane become mad. He does not see the end of B-24.
Seen by the American side the previous facts can, observed by far, end in the testimony reported in the MACR. Namely : a German hunter having a trajectory going to B-24 (almost in the touch) is shot with the machine guns of his victim, and catches fire. At distance, the witnesses can believe, considering the very weak distance which separates two aircrafts, that the fighter collides the bomber. In fact, that there was really shock or not, this plane was already on fire and has : either imploded, or break, it fell to pieces, losing, as often in that case, one or the two wings.
Naturally this hypothesis is unverifiable in the state. It has however the merit to be plausible... Rest to be verified how many German aircrafts were lost this day to find if another plane than that one of KNOKE was seen colliding B-24, and to find information concerning B-24 serial 42-40989 lost on October 4, 1943.
But if this hypothesis is true, the dorsal machine gunner, S/S SEIFERT, Robert B. is a real hero!Some words about the American airmen: if they were 11 in edge, of 3 which the dorsal machine gunner stayed in the plane. This machine gunner was so still alive and one can wonder why he had not jumped (breakdown of radio?). The two others were probably the very exposed pilots because target of KNOKE's first head-on attack was the cockpit. KNOKE reports that the nose of the plane had been touched with shells. Either the pilots were able to give order to the others to evacuate while they kept control of the B-24, or they had been killed or seriously wounded and the rest of the crew decided to abandon the plane. 8 people evacuated B-24. HEINZ KNOKE says that he saw during his descent their parachutes some hundred lower metres. The sea in which KNOKE falls is cold and very formed. There are numerous waves : normal one is in October. Tracked down by his companions, KNOKE sees arriving from the South Focke Wulf Weihe which launches him another inflatable raft. He has quite great difficulties to be joined itand then to raised himself in. There are about two hours before a lifeboat comes to look for him. In these conditions, it is certain that the American airmen not having received the help of a more important inflatable raft, were not able to isolate themselves of the cold and stay alive until the arrival of the German helps, come hardly late.
From: <Jmcg99@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2000 11:16 PMMajor Appert was my Squadron Commander and he flew in my plane from Topeka to Wendling. He helped me to become a lead pilot and I thank him for that.
He was flying, as deputy command pilot on my wing when he was rammed. The enemy fighters were the hottest that I saw during my entire tour.
I have a vague memory of going to Wisconsin to see his family right after the war but that was a long time ago. I would be glad to hear from his family if they choose.Jim McGregor
From: William Cetin, (Captain, Lead Bombardier, 392nd, 579 Sqd.)
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 00:37 AM
Greetings!
I was a lead bombardier on the Harrison Cassell crew, put together in Tucson, AZ in 1943.
We flew with Major Appert several times.
Once, while on a training mission, when Major Appert was at the controls of the B24, we looked out the window to find "rocks" going by - he had flown us INTO the Grand Canyon - we had an "inside look" at the walls of the Grand Canyon!!!
William Cetin
Special Thanks to William Cetinfor sharing testimony
Description of this victory by Heinz Knoke and different information :
To facilitate the reading, lines of Heinz Knoke's flightbook, appearing above, were modified with small computing assembly.
If the disposal is not in accordance with the original, the main thing of the information, namely the mission 228 of Octobber 4, has no change.
Heinz Knoke Informations
Personal comments
Source
Date
Type of claimed plane
Place of the interception
Crash Location
Presumed mission USAAF
Presumed route USAAF
Schedule
Rescued to HeligolandWeather report
Knoke's Unit
5./JG11
Detail 1
"Today, for the first time, we are to try making a frontal attack in close Squadron formation of more than forty aircraft...
<<Follow course three-six-zero,>> orders base"
Description of the fight
My salvo have had its effect. The Liberator swerves, drops out the formation, and heads away in the opposite direction.
...I close in under the fat belly and continue firing until it is in flames. The Liberator burns very much faster than the more streamlined Fortresses. Eight men immediately bale out. The parachutes mushroom in the air and hang there swaying."Detail 2
Suddenly I notice the flashes in the dorsal turret. Too late ! A salvo of fire smashes into my crate. My engine bursts into flames at once. There is no response when I move the controls."
KNOKE, who is alone, sees at once jumping 8 members of the crew with parachute. Thinking that it does not stay any living crew in the B-24 he gets closer very near, 60 to 100 feet. Probably the dorsal machine gunner stayed at his post and mades a perfect bulls eyes on Knoke's Me 109 at very short distance ! KNOKE evacuates his plane and does not see the end of the B-24.
Seen from the American side the previous facts can, observed by far, end in the testimony reported in the MACR. Namely : a German hunter having a trajectory going to teh B-24 (almost in the touch) is shot with the machine guns of his victim, and catches fire. At distance, the witnesses can believe, considering the very weak distance which separates two aircrafts, that the fighter collides the bomber. In fact, that there was really shock or not, this plane was already on fire and has : either imploded, or break, it fell to pieces, losing, as often in that case, one or the two wings.Detail 3
It is certain that the American airmen not having received the help of a more important inflatable raft, were not able to isolate themselves of the cold water and to stay alive until the arrival of the German helps, which came hardly late.
