October
8, 1943, 17th victory October
8, 1943, 17th victory 
Searches concerning this victory :
| progress of the search | 4 | Last update | February 14, 2002 | Evaluation quality of information | 3 |
The mission of the USAAF
COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCESFRIDAY, 8 OCTOBER 1943
EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force):
VIII Bomber Command Mission 111. 4 locations in Germany are targetted. On this mission the Eighth Air Forces uses, for the first time, airborne transmitters (Carpet equipment) to jam German radar. 30 bombers and 3 fighters are lost.
1. 105 of 118 B-17's dispatched to the shipyard at Bremen hit the target at 1505-1513 hours; they claim 42-2-28 Luftwaffe aircraft; 9 B-17's are lost and 61 damaged; casualties are 2 KIA, 18 WIA and 90 MIA.
2. 53 of 56 B-17's dispatched to the industrial area at Bremen hit the target at 1512-1513 hours; they claim 24-7-17 Luftwaffe aircraft; 4 B-17's are lost and 44 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 12 WIA and 41 MIA.
3. 43 of 55 B-24's dispatched to the U-boat yards at Vegesack hit the target at 1622-1624 hours; they claim 17-1-7 Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 B-24's are lost and 21 damaged; casualties are 1 KIA, 5 WIA and 30 MIA.
4. 156 of 170 B-17's dispatched to the city of Bremen hit the target and targets of opportunity at 1505-1527 hours; they claim 84-12-33 Luftwaffe aircraft; 14 B-17's are lost, 2 damaged beyond repair and 110 damaged; casualties are 21 WIA and 140 MIA.
The B-17's are escorted by 274 P-47's; they claim 12-2-4 Luftwaffe aircraft; 3 P-47's are lost and 5 damaged; casualties are 2 WIA and 3 MIA.
Source : 100th Bomb Group Foundation
Capt. Ev Blakely - Gp. Lead -- Bremen
Oct 8, 1943 (Bremen)
Group alerted early evening of the 7th - scrubbed soon afterwards - enemy bombed between Bungay and Nowich around 2200 hours. Lots of Ack Ack visible. There were a dozen or so planes reported shot down in the vicinity of our base, some in flames. Early radio reports stated 175 planes over England during the night.
At 0500 hours the group alerted for Bremen with take-off time set for 1145 hours. Two other big missions on with B-24's also with Bremen as their target.
Radio reported that the 100th bombed the primary at 1520 hours.
Group returned at 1700 hours - missing seven (7) planes and crews.
Major Cleven with DeMarco missing; Nash, Meadow, McDonald, Gormley, Murphy in the famed Piccadily Lily; and Becktoft
were also missing. Colonel Kidd and Blakely crashed landed near Norwich after a historic air battle all the way home from Bremen. Two crewmen were severely wounded - they claimed 12 fighters and were allowed nine.8 OCT 43 BREMEN MISSION CHRONOLOGY
Chronologies are plagued with discrepancies; the following are two of the more perplexing.
In establishing departure and return times, the "j" form" is a valuable document. In general the practice was for heavy bombers, B-17s and B-24s, to be dispatched at thirty second intervals. The "j form" on 08 oct 43 for the 100th bombardment group (h) does not follow this procedure. At 1143 hrs two B-17s (423233 and 4230840) are listed as departing. It will be assumed that the first aircraft departed on the minute and the succeeding one thirty seconds later.
Even greater discrepancies, understandably, occurred during the course of the missions. Lt f. C. Peterson of 425864 reported bomb release at 1521 hrs, but the lead bombardier's log indicates bomb release at 1525 hrs. Watches not synchronized, the stress of combat are factors in the mission discrepancies.
In summary, the times noted below must be considered approximate. The order of events, that is, the loss of aircraft reference to mission phase are correct. There is a 100th status report for 7 oct 43 at 2000 hrs (the eve of the 8 oct 43 bremen mission) and at the end of the chronology the status report for 8 oct 43 at 2000 hrs.
October 7, 1943 2000 Hrs Group Status Report 37
Combat Crews Assigned 30
Combat Crews Assigned 43
Aircraft Assigned 43
Aircraft On Hand 33
Aircraft Operational 8
Aircraft Operational Within 24 Hrs 2
Aircraft Operational Within 7 Days
October 8, 1943 1130 taxi time of the first aircraft
23233 Maj Gale Cleven Capt B. A. Demarco 230840 Lt Herbert G. Nash 23433 Lt Robert P. Kramer 230818 Lt William N, Mcdonald 230358 Lt Frank H. Meadows 230047 Lt Charles D. Walts 230487 F/O Owen D. Roane 230154 Lt Arthur H. Becktoft 23229 Lt John K. Justice
23393
Maj John B. Kidd Capt E. E. Blakely
230758
Lt Robert Rosenthal
23237 Lt John F. Stephens 230062 Capt C. B. Cruikshank 230152 Lt Walter U. Moreno 230091 Lt D. L. Minor
25997
Lt William M. Beddow
25864
Capt Thomas E. Murphy
230723 Lt Howard E. Keel 23474 Lt Maurice E. Beatty 23386 Lt Raymond J. Gormley 230796 Lt John T. Griffin
25957
Capt H. M. Hennington
This aircraft participated as a scheduled spare;
it's position in the formation is uncertain.
230170
Lt Edward G. Stork
This aircraft participated as a scheduled spare;
it's position in the formation is uncertain.
230088
Lt Robert N. Lohof
This aircraft participated as a scheduled spare;
it's position in the formation is uncertain.
23307
Scheduled to participate; replaced by 230723, EP-D
230830
Scheduled to participate; replaced by 23237, LD-R
8 OCT 43 BREMEN MISSION CHRONOLOGY 1259
23237 LD-R STYMIE Aborted; oil leak no#1 engine 1130 100Th leaves the english coast 1416
230062
LD-O
TERRYNTEN
Aborts; No#2,3, and 4 generators inoperative 1426 23433 LN-W UNNAMED Aborts; loss of oxygen to top turret 1453
100th crossed european coast 10 miles nnw of groningen;
aggressive fighter attacks begin1508
23386
EP-H
MARIE HELENA
Mid-air collision with FW-190 of 2/jg11 thought to have been flown by Oblt. Erich Hondt.
The crew (10) KIA1510
230358
LN-X
PHARTZAC
For yet to be determined reasons, aircraft exploded, killing eight(8) of the crew, while two (2) were taken prisoner.
1512
230154
XR-H
WAR EAGLE
Was seen going down in flames, resulting in the death of one (1) crew member, the other nine (9) were captured.
1515 100TH reaches the initial point 1515
230330
BT-A
BLOOD GUTS & RUST II
This 390th bombardment group B-17 was last seen leaving the formation with No 2 and 3 engines on fire.
Resulting in the death of four (4) crew members, while six (6) were captured.1516
230318
DI-C
DEVIL'S DAUGHTER
This 390th bombardment group B-17 was last seen dropping out of the formation with no# 2 engine on fire.
Resulting in the death of one (1) crew member, while the other nine (9) were captured.1521
25864 EP-A PICCADILLY LILY Dropped bombs on the target 1521 Group becomes disorganized 25864
EP-A
PICCADILLY LILY
Left formation with No# 3 engine on fire and exploded, resulting in the death of six (6) of the eleven(11) crew members, while the other five (5) were captured. 23393 LD-Y JUST-A-SNAPPIN' Dropped out of formation. 230152 LD-X MESSIE BESSIE Dropped out of formation. 25957 XR-D HORNY Dropped out of formation. 230292
CC-Q
UNNAMED
This 390th bombardment group B-17 was last seen leaving formation with No#4 engine on fire and was encircled by enemy fighters, resulting in the death of six (6) crew members, while four (4) were captured. 1525
100TH Reaches the rally point; fighter attacks decrease. 1530
230840
LN-O
UNNAMED
Uncertain as to circumstances regarding this aircraft's loss; resulted in the death of five (5) crew members, while five (5) were captured. 1533
23233
LN-R
OUR BABY
Uncertain circumstances regarding this aircraft's loss, resulted in the capture of all crew members. 1555
230818
LN-S
SALVO SAL
Uncertain as to circumstances regarding this aircraft's los, except that it was damaged by flak. It'sloss re sulted in the death of one (1) crew member with the other nine (9) captured. 1628 100TH Left the european coast 100TH Crossed the english channel.
1712 23474 EP-B QUEEN BEE Received "ac" battle damage from flak. 1715 23229 XR-A PASEDENA NINA Undamaged 1716
25997
EP-F
HEAVEN CAN WAIT
"Ac" battle damage; flak and small caliber gun fire. 1717 230047 LN-Q SWEATER GIRL Undamaged 1718 230723 EP-D UNNAMED Undamaged 1719 230487 XR-F TORCHY III Undamaged 1721 230152 LD-X MESSIE BESSIE "A" battle damage form flak. 1722
230088
XE-E
SQUAWKIN HAWK
"A" battle damage from flak and small caliber gun fire.0 1723
230758
LD-W
ROSIE'S RIVETERS "A" battle damage from flak.
1725
230796
EP-K
SUNNY II
"A" battle damage from flak, 20mm cannon and small caliber gun fire. 1733 230091 LD-S BLIVIT "A" battle damage from flak. 1745 25957 XR-D HORNY "A" battle damage from flak. 1813
230170
XR-G
HOT SPIT
"A" battle damage from flak and self-inflicted gun fire. 1845
23963
LD-Y
JUST-A-SNAPPIN'
Crash landing at ludham; declared beyond repair 10 oct 43.
October 8, 1943 2000 Hrs Group Status Report 30
Combat Crews Assigned 20
Combat Crews Assigned 36
Aircraft Assigned 36
Aircraft On Hand 19
Aircraft Operational 0
Aircraft Operational Within 24 Hrs 12
Aircraft Operational Within 7 Days 5
Aircraft Operational After 7 Days The wording of picture captions, notes, logs, letters, etc. on this site is verbatim from the NationalArchives of the United States and other sources. As a result, you will see many typographical, spelling,and grammatical errors. The information is presented in this manner to preserve data integrity.
27 B-17 declared lost on October 8, 1943 :
Source : Book "The B-17 Flying Fortress Story" and Website 381st Bomb Group - Lost Crew Roster http://www.jvlnet.com/~paradise/381st/lc3.htm#msn3
serial number
squadron
code
reason
mission lost on
pilot / crew
42-3123
381 BG
535 BSMS-Z
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Breme
415 G101St Lt. Kemp, Leslie A. P
2nd Lt. Heim, William C. CP
2nd Lt. Tomlin, Frank E. N
2nd Lt. Nelson, Thomas B. B
S/Sgt. Richards, Walter L. RO
T/Sgt. Jennette, Arthur F. TTG
S/Sgt. Gentry, Gilles E. BTG
S/Sgt. Osborn, Edward F. TG
S/Sgt. Duffy, Raymond V. LWG
S/Sgt. Stinsman, James (NMI) RWG,
10KIA,
MACR 139642-3233
100 BG
350 BSLN-R
flak
&
fighters
15h33Bremen
Crash Location?
On way home
1st Lt Bernard A. De Marco P
Major Gale W. "Bucky" Cleven Squadron Commander
F/O James P. Thayer CP
1st Lt John W. Downs N
2nd Lt Francis C. Harper B
T/Sgt Benjamin J. Barr E
Cpl Jerome E. Ferroggiaro WG
Cpl Thornton Stringfellow R
S/Sgt William J. Williams BT
S/Sgt Harry C. Calhoun WG
William R. Woodbury TG
11POW
MACR 950
42-3258
Boeing B-17F-40-DL
379 BG
527 BS
FO-T
flak
Breme
Crash Location Breme
415 G10
Hinckley,
10POW
MACR 95942-3386
100 BG
351 BSEP-H
collision with FW190
Lt. Hondt
2./JG11
also claimed by
Fw. Laufer
2./JG11Bremen
15h08
Crash Location Bellingwolde
15 kms sud de Dollart
415 G5Raymond J. Gormely P
Edward Fox CP,
10KIA,
MACR 94942-5855
Boeing B-17F-30-VE
306 BG
423 BSRD-T
flak
Breme
Crash Location Goldenstedt
415 H9Rodman,
5KIA, 5POW,
MACR 86942-5864
100 BG
351 BSEP-A
flak
N°#3 engine on fire then exploded
15h21Bremen
Crash Location
Breme
415 G101st Lt Thomas E. Murphy P KIA
Captain Alvin L. Barker CP KIA
2nd Lt Marshall F. Lee CP/BT KIA
2nd Lt Charles C. Sarabun N POW
2nd Lt Floyd C. Peterson B POW
T/Sgt John J. Ehlen E POW
S/Sgt Gerald O Robinson TG POW
T/Sgt Derrell C. Piel R KIA
S/Sgt Elder D. Dickerson WG KIA
Reed Hufford BT POW
S/Sgt. Aaron A. David WG KIA
6KIA, 5POW,
MACR 94842-29520
Boeing B-17F-55-BO
91 BG
323 BSOR-S
fighter
15h15
Hptm. Hoeckner
10kms north west from DiepenauBreme
Crash Location PreuBisch Ströhen
415 i9Kamp,
3KIA, 7POW,
MACR 909
42-29765
Boeing B-17F-70-BO "Nip and Tuck"
381 BG
533 BS
VP-R
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Breme
415 G10
2nd Lt. Hartze, James W. P POW
2nd Lt. Jerome, Joseph C. CP POW
2nd Lt. Norton, Edgar D. N POW
2nd Lt. Chanault, Joe P. B POW
S/Sgt. Kaseman, Eugene W. TTG KIA
S/Sgt. LaPlace, Gerald G. RO POW
S/Sgt. Boykin, Clayton M. BTG KIA
S/Sgt. Swackhaner, Edward A. RWG POW
Sgt. Cyyz, Edward (NMI) LWG KIA
S/Sgt. Sieber, Arthur T. TG POW
3KIA, 7POW
MACR 88342-29854
381 BG
532 BSVE-B
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Diepholz
415 i9Lt. Sample, Arthur M. P KIA
2nd Lt. Cytarzymski, Edward A. CP POW
Capt. Mackey, Norman C. N KIA
S/Sgt. Moore, Robert V. B KIA
S/Sgt. Ballou, Howard W. TG KIA
T/Sgt. Heintz, Warren G. RO KIA
S/Sgt. Olson, Melvin J. BTG KIA
S/Sgt. Grayson, William H. RWG KIA
S/Sgt. Forbes, James R. LWG KIA
S/Sgt. Johnston, George R. TG KIA
9KIA, 1POW,
MACR 1395
42-29941
Boeing B-17F-80-BO "Tarfu"
381 BG
535 BS
MS-R
fighter
15h45
Ofw. Zick 7./JG11
Breme
Crash Location
Talge
415 i7
Capt-Manchester, Edwin R. P KIA
Capt-Jukes, Elton D. CP KIA
1st Lt. Smith, Marvin L. N POW
1Ist Lt. Moore, Keith D. B POW
T/Sgt. Darrington, Lovenzo M. RG KIA
T/Sgt. O'Donnell, James J. TTG KIA
S/Sgt. Tucker, Arthur L. BTG KIA
S/Sgt. McCook, Wade (NMI) TG POW
S/Sgt. Budzik, Anthony L. RWG KIA
S/Sgt. Berk, Mathew (NMI) LWG POW,
6KIA, 4POW,
MACR 88442-29959
Boeing B-17F-80-BO
306 BG
423 BS?
flak
Breme
Crash Location Fischerhude
415 G11Kooima,
6KIA, 4POW,
MACR 86742-29985
Boeing B-17F-80-BO "Barrel House Bessie"
306 BG
367 BS?
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Breme
415 G10Ledgerwood,
1KIA, 9POW,
MACR 86842-30009
381 BG
532 BSVE-G
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Diepholz
415 i9Lt. Pry, Jack S. P POW
2nd Lt. Quinley, Cecil W. CP POW
2nd Lt. Burwell, Roger W. B POW
2nd Lt. Snyder, Theodore F. N POW
T/Sgt. LaPointe, Edward R. TTG
POW
T/Sgt. Frautschi, Russell H. RO
POW
S/Sgt. Smith, Irvin W. BTG KIA
S/Sgt. Baird, Carl L. RWG POW
S/Sgt. Johnson, Alfred A. LWG KIA
S/Sgt. Brandt, Martin D. TG POW
2KIA, 8POW,
MACR 139742-30154
Boeing B-17F-90-BO "War Eagle"
100 BG
349 BSXR-H
15h12
4 minutes after B-17 #42-3386 which crashed near DollartBremen
Crash Location ?Arthur H. Becktoft P POW
Clifford Spencer CP,
1KIA, 9POW,
MACR 953
42-30275
Boeing B-17F-95-BO "The Vibrant Virgin"
385 BG
548 BS
P
flak
Breme
Crash Location Quackenbrück
415 H7
Jensen,
10POW,
MACR 82542-30292
Boeing B-17F-95-BO "Pulsatin' Polly"
390 BG
569 BSCC-Q
fighter
15h21
Hptm. Hackl III./JG11Breme
Crash Location Quelkhorn
415 G11Sheperd,
6KIA, 4POW,
MACR 78342-30318
Boeing B-17F-95-BO "Devil's daughter"
390 BG
570 BSDI-G
flak
N°#2 engine on fireBreme
15h16
Crash Location Breme
415 G10Rennels,
1KIA, 9POW,
MACR 781
42-30330
Boeing B-17F-95-BO "Blood Guts & Rust II"
390 BG
568 BS
BI-A
flak
N°#2 and 3 engine on fire
Breme
15h15
Crash Location Breme
415 G10
Peterson,
4KIA, 6POW,
MACR 78442-30358
100 BG
350 BSLN-X
15h10
2 minutes after B-17 #42-3386 crashed near DollartBremen
Crash Location
?Frank H. Meadows P KIA
Lloyd Evans CP
8KIA, 2POW,
MACR 947
42-30367
Boeing B-17F-100-BO "Flak Happy"
96 BG
337 BS
AW-Y
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Breme
415 G10
Bolstad,
7KIA, 3POW,
MACR 852
42-30373
Boeing B-17F-100-BO "Lucky Lady III"
96 BG
338 BS
BX-T
flak
Breme
Crash Location
?
"Weingarten"
?
Jones,
5KIA, 6POW,
MACR 85442-30722
Boeing B-17F-115-BO "Bobby T"
381 BG
534 BSGD-G
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Breme
415 G10Capt. Lishon, Dexter (NMI) P
2nd Lt. Long, Carlton H. CP
1st Lt. Gluck, Robert (NMI) N
2nd Lt. Rokosa, Phillip V. B
T/Sgt. Johnson, Canute M. TTG
T/Sgt. Riddle, Lloyd C. RO
S/Sgt. Madison, Clarence D. BTG
S/Sgt. Stuart, George A. RWG
S/Sgt. Schnalzer, John J. LWG
S/Sgt. Marques, William J. TG,
10POW,
MACR 139842-30818
100 BG
350 BSLN-S
damaged by flak, then shot down by fighters
on way home
15h55Bremen
Crash Location Wijn Jeterp (Hol)
907 M2William H. McDonald P POW
John James CP,
1EWD, 1KIA, 8POW,
MACR 95242-30840
100 BG
350 BSLN-O
?
15h30Breme
Crash Location Damme
415 i8Nash
5KIA, 5POW,
MACR 95142-30864
Boeing B-17F-125-BO
381 BG
535 BSMS-T
flak
Breme
Crash Location Haupstedt
415 H91st Lt. Cormany, William F. Jr. P POW
Major Ingenhutt, William W. CP POW
1st Lt. Frost, Edwin D. N POW
1st Lt. Black, Robert C. B KIA
T/Sgt. Roeder, Robert R. RO POW
T/Sgt. Miller, Earl F. TTG POW
S/Sgt. O'Hara, James J. BTG POW
S/Sgt. Smith, Richard W. RWG POW
S/Sgt. Dwyer, James J. LWG POW
1st Lt. Weniger, Robert L TG POW,
1KIA, 9POW
MACR 88542-37751
Boeing B-17G-DL
305 BG
365 BSXK-P
flak
Breme
Crash Location Noord-Oost-
Polder (Hol)
907 L3Emmert,
1EVD, 9POW
MACR 87142-37752
Boeing B-17G-DL
96 BG
339 BSQJ-A
fighter
Breme
Crash Location Lohne
415 i8Flahive,
10POW
MACR 853
The report of the mission #111 declares 27 B-17 lost. The table of losses above references 27 B-17. This table is complete.
Elements to direct searches :
From site : 4TH FIGHTER GROUPOctober 8, 1943
On a bomber escort mission, the 334th, at the rear of the bombers, saw 30+ enemy aircraft above and upsun. The squadron orbited to gain altitude but was continually bounced by sections of four to eight enemy fighters. This broke up the squadron and drew it away from the bombers. However, no enemy aircraft attacked the bombers. In the fight, Ralph Hofer chased a 109 400 feet above the Zuider Zee, trying to get it off of another P-47. The '47 went in but Hofer got the 109. Duane Beeson got two 109s, bringing his score to six and Roy Evans got a 190, bringing his score to five. They thus shared the distinction of becoming the Group's first aces. In the fight, Clyde Smith of the 334th and Robert Patterson of the 335th were shot down and taken prisoner. Patterson managed to keep ahead of the Germans for two months before being captured.
Description of this victory by Heinz Knoke and different information :
Heinz Knoke Informations
Personal comments
Source
Date
Type of claimed plane
Place of the interception
Crash Location
Square DP-2
Presumed mission USAAF
Presumed route USAAF
Schedule
Landing to Marx at 15.21
Time of flight 59 minutesSchedules are precise
Knoke's Unit
5./JG11
Description of the fight
