September 27, 1943, 14th victory
Archives and notes on my searches concerning this date & victory

Boeing B-17F-30-VE "Elusive Elcy" Serial 42-5888

of the 94BG / 331 BS piloted by 1Lt. Harley G. Roberts

" Elusive Elcy " is very probably B-17 having burst under rockets launched by Heinz KNOKE. This plane is the only one to have be fallen in the area of Norderney's island with only a single survivor. Rest to be verified with the contents of the MACR 732 the exact falling point near Norden, the eventual testimony of the survivor.

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Searches concerning this victory :

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The mission of the USAAF

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COMBAT CHRONOLOGY OF THE US ARMY AIR FORCES

MONDAY, 27 SEPTEMBER 1943
EUROPEAN THEATER OF OPERATIONS (Eighth Air Force):
VIII Bomber Command

Mission 104:

The port of Emden, Germany is the target. 2 of 3 H2S equipped pathfinder B-17's of the 482d Bombardment Group (Pathfinder) lead the mission. This is the first Pathfinder (PFF) mission.
246 of 308 B-17's hit the Emden industrial area and targets of opportunity at 0958-1008 hours ;
they claim 32-7-24 Luftwaffe aircraft ;
7 B-17's are lost, 1 is damaged beyond repair and 78 damaged ;
casualties are 1 KIA, 18 WIA and 71 MIA.

This mission is escorted by 262 P-47's which claim 21-2-6 Luftwaffe aircraft ;
1 P-47 is lost, 1 damaged beyond repair and 1 damaged ;
casualties are 1 MIA.

Mission 105:

4 of 5 B-17's of the 422d Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 305th Bombardment Group (Heavy), hit Hannover at 2208-2217 hours in a night raid with the RAF ;
1 B-17 is lost ;
casualties are 10 MIA.

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Photo of Lead Crew of the 359th BS for mission #72 on september 27, 1943 Emden.

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Jersey Bounce #42-29664 (358BS) VK-C
41st CBW High (359BS) - Pilot R.L. Mattison / CoPilot Capt H.E. Kalhoefer

(Back Row L-R) 1Lt David A. Rich (N), S/Sgt James E. Schneider (BTG),
Lt Reinaldo J. Saiz (B), 1Lt Robert L. Mattison (P),
1Lt Norman N. Jacobsen (N), Capt Herbert E. Kalhoefer (CP)

(Front Row L-R) Lt Spencer F. Case (TG/O), S/Sgt Shuble A. Boling (LWG),
T/Sgt Lloyd E. Nordyke (RO), S/Sgt David G. McEachern (RWG),
S/Sgt Morton Luman (Photo), T/Sgt Frederick J. Green (FE)

(Luman and Boling's identification may be reversed.)

[photo courtesy of Norm Jacobsen]

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8 B-17 are declared lost on September 27, 1943 :

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Source : Book "The B-17 Flying Fortress Story"

serial number	plane type / name	squadron	code	reason	mission lost on	pilot
42-3111	Boeing B-17F-25-DL "Local Girl"	91BG 324 BS	DF-A1	fighter	Emden Crash Location Geefsweer (Hol)	Pegram, 4KIA, 6POW MACR 667
42-5989	Boeing B-17F-40-VE "Marge H."	94 BG 331 BS	QE-S	fighter	Emden Crash Location Aurich	Lt. M. L. Haskins, P, Lt. G. C. Standifird, CP, Lt. J. D. Sowry, N, Lt. F. H. Standifird, B, T/Sgt J. L. Haas, RO, S/Sgt J. Kachadoorian, BT, Sgt T. P. Guinn, TT, S/Sgt W. W. Gilmer, TG, S/Sgt G. A. Heavner, RW, Sgt P. B. Werth, LW, 10KIA, MACR 5674
42-29750	Boeing B-17F-70-BO "Ramblin' Rebel"	91 BG 323 BS	OR-L	fighter	Emden Crash Location Emden	Perritt, 9KIA, 1POW, MACR 668
42-30624	Boeing B-17F-115-BO "Queen Bee"	91 BG 322 BS	LG-Q	fighter	Emden Crash Location Emden	Struble, 5KIA, 5POW, MACR 669
42-30792	Boeing B-17F-120-BO	96 BG 339 BS	QJ-E	flak	Emden Crash Location Emden	Drabnis, 2KIA, 8POW, MACR 756

Source : MACR & AFHRA microfilm

serial number	plane type / name	squadron	code	reason	mission lost on	pilot
42-5888	B-17F-30-VE "Elusive Elcy"	94 BG 331 BS	QE-X	fighter	Emden Crash Location near Norden	1Lt. Harley G. Roberts, P, KIA, Lt. E. F. Nelson, CP, KIA, Lt. S. I. Posner, N, KIA, Lt. W. C. Peterson, B, KIA, T/Sgt W. S. Brearton, RO, KIA, S/Sgt P. Muha, BT, KIA, T/Sgt C. J. Roberts, TT, KIA, S/Sgt Richard Scott, TG, POW, S/Sgt Patrick J. Bolgar, RW, KIA, T/Sgt J. J. O'Brien, LW, KIA, Lt. J. F. Digman, OBS, KIA, 10KIA, 1POW, MACR 732
42-29555	Boeing B-17F-60-BO "Centaur"	305 BG 422 BS	JJ-Y/D	fighter	Hannover Crash Location Hannover Mission #105 first B-17 lost on night mission	Rodgers, 7KIA, 3POW, MACR 730/906
42-30454	Boeing B-17F-105-BO "Thunderbird" usually listed as "Reluctant Dragon"	94 BG 333 BS	TS-B	fighter	Emden Crash Location Ditched on North Sea	Lt. J. C. Thalmann, P, KIA, F/O W. O. Morris, CP, POW, Lt. J. V. Lilly, N, POW, Lt. J. H. White, B, POW, T/Sgt L. Exelberth, RO, POW, S/Sgt J. C. Harling, BT, POW, T/Sgt F. L. Belcher, TT, POW, S/Sgt E. J. Schaler, TG, POW, Sgt C. W. Carter, RW, POW, W. W. Gray, LW, POW, 1KIA, 9 POW, MACR 733

The reports of missions 104 and 105 give lost 7+1 B-17. Tables above with 8 B-17 are complete.
The target, EMDEN, of the mission 104, situated in 50kms of JEVER corresponds well to the geographic description which gives KNOKE.
The quoted schedules are:
USAAF: Emden's bombardment between 09.08 and 10.08
KNOKE: takeoff at 10.55 touched with the ground having jumped parachutes 11.26 less than 31'.
Jet lag is of one hour between the two camps...

The plane having exploded its load of bombs on the impact of 2 rockets fired by KNOKE, all the crew probably died at the time. The square AP-5/8 indicated by KNOKE for his victory is situated over the sea, North of the island Norderney.
The wreck of bombers shot down from high altitude very often crashed some 30kms far from the point were German pilots claimed the victory (it's a fact I've noticed all along my researchs).
The fragments of the B-17 having exploded may have fallen inland near sea and there should be no survivors.

Here is an excerpt from "Lingering Contrails of the Big Square A", Harry E. Slater, pages 92-93 : On September 27th, VIII Bomber Command launched 305 bombers to Emden with H2S aircraft in the lead... ...Approaching Germany there was 9/10 cloud cover with tops at varying heights. It was decided to bomb on the Pathfinder equipped aircraft, but by the time the 94th reached the area the smoke marker had dissipated, making instant decisions and calculations necessary. The bomb run was a series of turns, (= Knoke's Description of the fight) avoiding weather and fighting the poor visibility. Two 94th aircraft bombed through a visual hole and the rest dropped on Norden, a target of opportunity... (Looking at Detail 6 of Knoke account, note that Esens, situated near the coast in the same area, was also a potential target of opportunity or might have been confused with Norden.) ...Another aircraft (The author is speaking about "Elusive Elcy") in the formation was observed being hit by FW-190's (The witnesses were far from the action and identification was difficult) diving out of the clouds from above. Its wing was quickly enveloped in flame and burned off as if it were made of paper. The aircraft then exploded, and there was no sign of parachutes as it plunged into the ground. "What a pitiful sight to see metal and men flying through the air," said Vance Van Hosser... (= Knoke's Description of the fight)

clic on photo to enlarge it.

A very precious photo showing the last moments of the B-17F #42-5888 "Elusive Elcy" is sitting quite well with Knoke account. On the photo "Elusive Elcy" is completing a turn on left (looking at the stream of the bombers) and its wing have just been broken. One can see 3 little points behind the moribund bomber, probably German fighters, maybe Knoke and Reinhardt !
What's of a real interest is that the bomb bay are opened. As the major part of 94th bombed Norden, this photo show the bombing alley. Having exploded, the wreck of the B-17F #42-5888 "Elusive Elcy" crashed, near Norden, just on the stream of the bombers.

Special Thanks to John Sletten for 1lt Harley G. Roberts and "Elusive Elcy" informations
Thanks to Louis Hopkins for "Elusive Elcy" and 94BG informations

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Description of this victory by Heinz Knoke and different information :

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Warning ! To facilitate the reading, lines of Heinz Knoke's flightbook, appearing above, were modified with small computing assembly. If the disposal is not in accordance with the original, the main thing of the information, namely the mission 226 of September 27, has no change.

	Heinz Knoke Informations	Personal comments
Source	I flew for the f... page 115
Date	September 27, 1943
Type of claimed plane	Fortress
Place of the interception	Jever's surroundings. 20000 feet in height.
Crash Location
Presumed mission USAAF		Target was Emden.
Schedule	Stand by : 10.30 enemy concentrations in map reference sector Dora Dora. Jever's takeoff : 10.55 Landing with parachutes near Jever : 11.26 (31 minutes)	31 minutes on the whole, everything happened near Jever.
Weather report	"The sky is completely overcast. We come out above the clouds at 10000 feet..."
Knoke's Unit	5./JG11 Bf 109G from II./JG11	All Bf 109G are equipped with rockets of 210 mm. Since August 19, 1943 the 109 are equipped with extra reserve fuel-tanks.
Detail 1	"10.45 : all set. I have a new aircraft. Arndt has been polishing it until it shines like a new mirror : no doubt that will add another ten miles per hour to the speed."
Detail 2	"The reserve tanks are still almost full when I order my Flight to jettison them."	It is a precious indication about Jever's nearness. Just the time to rise in 20000 feet heading East.
Description of the fight	"We swing quickly in to attack with our rockets. As we get in position, the Fortress split up into separate groups of some thirty or forty aircraft each, and keep on constantly altering course... I order all our rockets to be discharge when we are in formation at a range of 2000 feet. The next moment a simply fantastic scene unfolds before my eyes. My own two rockets both register a perfect bull's-eyes on a Fortress. Thereupon I am confronted with an enormous solid ball of fire. The bomber has blown up in mid-air with its entire load of bombs. The blazing, smoking fragments come fluttering down."	A sure victory. Knoke didn't mention parachutes. No survivors.
Detail 3	"Wennekers also score a direct hit. His victim goes down in flames.	In fact it was not Wennekers. Uffz. Peter Reinhardt, Ltn. Dobrick, Ltn. Trockels, were the other pilots from 5./JG11 credited with B-17s.
Detail 4	"My wingman, Sergeant Reinhard, has discharged his rockets to explode beside another Fortress. The fuselage appears to be damaged, too, and it swerves away off to the left. I observe how Reinhard chases off merrily after it, blazing away with his guns. He fastens on the tail of the American."
Detail 5	"It is a black day indeed for the squadron. By evening it is ascertained that among my own pilots Sergeant Dölling has been killed, and Raddatz and Johnny Fest shot down also. 4./JG11 has lost two killed and one seriously wounded. One of the Headquarters aircraft has not returned. 6./JG11 seems to have got the worst of it. Nine our of its twelve pilots are lost. All the nine have been killed. The remaining three have been forced to either crash-land or bale out. Not a single one of their aircraft returned. On the credit side, however we have brought down twelve of the enemy to offset these heavy casualties. No fewer than six are credited to my lucky "Fifth" alone."	6 Victories of 5./JG11 were : Uffz. Peter Reinhardt, Ltn. Dobrick, Ltn. Trockels, Lt. Knoke, with B-17s; Uffz. Biermann, Lt. Knoke, with P-47s;
Detail 6	"Added to the credit side, of course, there is also the fact that today the Americans failed to reach their objective. They were obliged to take their bombs back home with them. The only exception was one of the smaller formations of Fortresses. They unloaded their bombs through a hole in the clouds on the little town of Esens in East Frisia. A school was hit, and 120 children were killed : that was one-third of the entire child population of the place."

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Luftwaffe' B-17s Official Victories on September 27, 1943.

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Source : .

Rank / Pilot	Unit	Plane	Place / Schedule
Hptm. Paul Stolte	6./JG3	B-17 HSS	CO 9-3: 9.000m Neuwolda 11.05
Lt. Heinz Knoke	5./JG11	B-17	AP 5-8: 6.000m Near Norden before 11.14
Uffz. Peter Reinhardt	5./JG11	B-17	BQ 1-5: 6.000 m Langeoog-Carolinensiel 11.14
Ltn. Franz Ruhl	4./JG3	B-17	CP 1: 6.000m Manslagt NW Emden 11.15
Oblt. Gerhard Sommer	4./JG11	B-17	UP 7: 8.000m. 38 km. NW Nordeney 11.20
Ltn. Dobrick	5./JG11	B-17	BP 6.1: 6.000m Westerholt-Nordeney 11.20
Uffz. Klotz	4./JG11	B-17	UP 7: 8.000m 38 km NW Nordeney 11.20
Ltn. Trockels	5./JG11	B-17	BP 8-7: 7.000m S. Norden 11.22
Ltn. Horst Brock	5./JG3	B-17	BP 3: 7.600m 11.22
Oblt. Eugen Kotiza	4./JG1	B-17 HSS	AO 9: 6.500m 11.30
Fw. Hans-Günther Reinhardt	Stab/JG1	B-17	BO 4: 7.300m 11.30
Fw. Rudolf Blomann	4./JG3	B-17 HSS	UL 5: 9.500m 12.09
Fw. Franz Cech	6./JG3	B-17 HSS	EO-CP: 9.000m 12.40
Uffz. Karl-Heinz Kutzera	Stab II./JG11	B-17 HSS	CH 1: 7500m 70km NW Den Helder 12.45
Hptm. Erwin Clausen	Stab I./JG11	B-17	Ost S /UP-6.1: 6.000m

Thanks to Diego Fernando Zampini for his help

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