August
16, 1944, 28th victory August
16, 1944, 28th victory 
<<As a separate point, the Spitfire you show to illustrate, is likely one flown by S/L Liscutin of 312 (Czech) Spitfire Squadron. The squadron code is 'DU' as shown, and the 'A' letter was usually reserved for the Squadron Leader's aircraft. This squadron transferred to France 28 July 1944 when they began operationg out of ALFG B.10.>>
(Dave Clark 'Spitfire photo on your site' Thu May 11 09:07:18 2000)
Searches concerning this victory :
| progress of the search | 1 | Last update | February 8, 2001 | Evaluation quality of information | 0 |
Spitfire declared lost on August 16, 1944 (current result of my works) :
No information found this day.
Elements to direct searches :Dave Clark ' Knoke's victories' Thu May 11 09:03:38 2000 That is an excellent site you have created, congratulations! I thought I might be able to shed some light on Knoke's 28th victory -- a Spitfire -- but unfortunately the date is different by one day. 403 Squadron of 127 Wing lost three aircraft and one pilot on the 17th of August, but I was unable to find a record of a Spitfire lost on the 16th ..... that does not question your data, just the limits of my own information.
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Hi Dave,Thanks for your kind remarks, I'm intersted by the info about your three spit on the 17th August. In fact I still didn't start working on this claim. Why ? Etampes, the crashlocation is 20 kilometers far from my home :-) I hope to find a lot of historical info in local newspapers archives, police or autorities archives, and testimonies... But I need much more time to start this search !
Knoke wrote "Spitfires come over in a dawn attack on our airstrip and strafe the dispersal area of N°10 flight," (10./JG1) "but without causing much damage. I take off in pursuit at the head of a section, and shoot down a Spitfire over Etampes."
On 16 August 1944 III./JG1 was on Bretigny or on Ballancourt-sur-Essone airstrip (10kms far from each other). Both are nearly 30kms far from Etampes. Official mission for Spitfires was (probably) straffing in this geographical part. Knoke reports data on 6th, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19th August 1944 in his book. It's a very detailed periodicity. I suppose Knoke was taking notes but I did'nt know what sort of notes and what was real frequency (dayly in such a hard time with seven missions a day ?) So a gap (mistake or else) of one day is also an eventuality to be take in consideration... That's why I'm intersted by "your" Spits :-)
By the way, this spitfires could be from USAF or Free French Force or ... ? Do you have, or know, good and reliable sources about Spitfire (like "The B-17 Flying Fortress Story" by Roger A. Freeman where every B-17 built are referenced and their historical datas reported !).
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Dave Clark 'Three Spits' Sun May 14 10:02:58 2000 Upon digging into it, I find the three Spitfires I referred to were shot down by German flak.
403 Squadron of 127 Wing flew two squadron-strength ground attack "armed recces" on the 17th of August.
The first was Lisieux-Bernay- Breteuil at 1400 hours, and the second was an armed recce to Trun at 1750 hours.
On the first F/O G R Weber NH232 was hit by flak and he baled out.
On the second F/O H V Boyle MK299 and F/O F L Garland ML183 were hit by intense ground fire and were missing.
The source of this is the ORB for 403 Squadron. Sorry it won't help your research!
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Hi Dave,In such research the only way to find the good plane is to find all the planes losses on the date + or - one day. Then collect and sort infos about all those planes.
So your help is a good one : 3 spits with reliable infos are NOT the one Knoke claimed :-) If only I could found such infos about all claims...And when "the good one" is there, a very difficult step is to verify if another german pilot or flak unit claimed such a plane on the same day and area...
That's why I've take a great care, using a scale of reliability on each page.
Thanks again for help.
Amities from France, Franck.
Description of this victory by Heinz Knoke and different information :
Heinz Knoke Informations
Personal comments
Source I flew for the f... page 165
Date August 16, 1944
Type of claimed plane Spitfire
Place of the interception
Between Brétigny and Etampes
Crash Location Etampes
Square DE-4 (Etampes)
(Source Jean - Bernard Frappé's Book "La Luftwaffe face au débarquement allié")
Presumed mission
RAF"Spitfires come over in a dawn attack on our airstrip and strafe the dispersal area of No. 10 Flight..."
Airfield was Bretigny
Schedule At dawn
Bretigny's takeoff
Victory on 5.30 (Source Jean - Bernard Frappé's Book "La Luftwaffe face au débarquement allié")
Weather report
Knoke's Unit III./JG1
Description of the fight "I take off in pursuit at the head of a Section, and shoot down a Spitfire over Etampes."
